Oda Eiichirou. He made his debut as a manga creator with One Piece, which was made into a long-running anime. "One Piece Film Strong World" is the first theatrical anime release that he has worked on as "general production supervisor". How did he spend his days, working on a weekly manga while also handling anime creation? Here is an overwhelming 12.000-characters long interview.
I became "general production supervisor" before I knew it
For the 10th theatrical release, "One Piece Film Strong World", you are in the credits as Original Creator, Movie Story, and General Production Supervisor. What kind of involvement did you have with the movie, more concretely?
Oda: It all began 2 years ago, in 2007, before the production of the last film, "One Piece the Movie: Episode of Chopper -miracle sakura, blooming in winter-", had started. The producer from Toei Animation, Shimizu Shinji, came to me and said, "Please do the 10th movie. There's still 2 years until then, so there's plenty of time." At first I refused, but eventually I promised to just write the plot, which got me a little bit involved after all. Looking at it now, I've got a feeling I fell into the trap Producer Shimizu made for me. (laugh) That was just the start. Because that's the way I am, I couldn't help worrying about who would do what to the plot I had written. And so, I wanted to check all sorts of things. Then I thought I might as well draw the characters' clothes myself. I absolutely wanted it to be something that I could accept, so I figured I could go that far. That was the second stage.
So the plot was the first step that pulled you into the movie creation, and the costume design was the second step?
Oda: There are lots of animals making an appearance in this plot, but at first I thought that I would only design the main ones myself. I intended to ask someone else to design the animals appearing on the edges of the screen and such. But then I started thinking that it would look weird if animals that someone else had drawn would move around on the corners of the screen. So, I decided to draw all the animals in every nook and cranny. In the end, I have designed every single one, even those who only appear for a moment.
How many animals did you design?
Oda: I wanted to fill up every space with my own pictures, so I drew 60 of them. At this point I started to worry about all kinds of other things. Who would be the director, and who would be in the animation staff? I started to check all sorts of things, and before I noticed, someone asked me if they could credit me as a "general production supervisor". (laugh) I replied, "Um, I guess."
So that's the third step. You became the "general production supervisor" because of the amount of work you did.
Oda: Somehow, yes. And after I had become that, I had no choice but to go even deeper. Once I was objectively thought of as the supervisor of the entire thing, I had a heavy responsibility. I started to think that I had to make sure I could accept every little detail.
Did you check the art and the contents of the pictures as well?
Oda: Yes. I've been checking that.
The director for the movie is the second series director, Sakai Munehisa, right?
Oda: I've known Sakai-san for a long time. He's been a member of the anime team ever since it first started. During the first series director, Uda Kounosuke-san's period, Sakai-san was in charge of stage direction. If you look at it, you can see when Sakai-san is stage directing. He always comes up with interesting ways to do things. It's the kind of stage direction that makes me go "Oh!" every time I watch. Sakai-san said that he would give everything he has learned in his life of directing on this movie. ...And it's true, he has (definitely!).
What I was aiming for with "Strong World"
Oda-san, what did you challenge yourself with when making "Strong World"?
Oda: You can't use sound in manga. In this anime, I tried to go for an interesting sound experience. For example, a character I created for the movie is a mime whose footsteps sound like farts, and I also tried to create entrance scenes that match the music.
There's a scene where characters come on stage dancing.
Oda: I had fun drawing characters with actual sounds.
Shiki's legs are swords, so his footsteps also have an interesting sound, too.
Oda: His feet are blades, so they make a "cling, cling" kind of sound. He's another weird character.
Konishi Yasushi-san was involved in making the opening music.
Oda: I'm always listening to a wide variety of music, but there was this song by Konishi-san that I really love. When I listen to the intro of that song, I can feel the tension rising. I had that melody used as a base with other sounds going on top of it.
The theme song is made by Mr Children, who you are a great fan of, right?
Oda: Actually, my one condition for writing the plot was Mr Children. I'm of the Mr Children generation. I told them that if Mr Children gets to sing the theme song, it makes me happy, and it makes me want to write the plot. So Mr Children was the first thing that was decided. But then, just because I had that condition there was no guarantee that they would accept. So Mr Children's theme song was also the last thing that was decided, after the plot had been written and the anime created. I though they might refuse, so I was very happy when they accepted.
The background music was written by Tanaka Kouhei-san and Minatoguchi Shirou-san?
Oda: They have created wonderful music as always. Particularly the music in the jungle scene in the middle of the movie is really cool. Everyone has been pulling out all their skills, and I'm really satisfied with the musical side of the movie, too. I'm a fortunate person.
Design in manga and anime
For this movie, you've been in charge of designing 60 creatures. You've said in an earlier interview that thinking up character designs is the most fun part of making manga, haven't you?
Oda: Yes. I could make any number of designs. But it's hard to make the animals I design move. There have been times when I have cursed myself for making such complicated designs in the manga. But this time, if I made a lot of drawings, the animators would take care of making them move (laugh)? So for this movie, I could design the animals just the way I wanted them, without holding back.
Hahaha. So you mean that when you design creatures for the manga, it's a different kind of tension?
Oda: I had fun designing these. Of course, I wasn't drawing them completely at random - I designed them with the story in mind.
"Strong World" takes place on an island where only the strongest survive. So these creatures are the result of a unique evolution?
Oda: Yes, I was thinking of how current animals would look if they evolved to become stronger. The design concept was "stronger".
Do you have some particular favorite design?
Oda: The forest octopus. Actually, I wanted to use it in the main story long ago, so it's an old character that I failed to use. "An octopus that lives in the forest, and appears by pushing down the trees." The animators made it move well, so I'm very happy with it.
What was the concept for the costume design?
Oda: The fashion theme for this movie is "I want to show a side of the characters never shown so far in One Piece". It's most apparent with Robin, but they're all wearing clothes they have never worn before. I keep asking the anime creators to make different character designs, but I guess they want to be nice to me, because they always draw the characters with the same kind of designs as I do. Apparently, I am the only one who can break the One Piece world. So because I got involved this time, I wanted to do things that couldn't be done before - that could only be done now. That's why I made sure to have the characters wear clothes with different colors and designs than they have ever worn before. Some of these are difficult to animate, but I asked the the director and the artists working under him nicely... For example, Usopp of all people is wearing an armor. (laugh) I was asked if I couldn't remove at least one part of the armor, but I told them to please draw all of it, because if you fill it out, your feelings will come across to the viewers. I guess I was pretty hard on them...
"If you fill it out, your feelings will come across"? It feels like words that you are paying attention to when drawing manga, too.
Oda: It's my master's words. I'm passing them on. That's why I keep trying to fill out my pictures as much as I have time for... Although I'm not sure it was a good idea to push that on the animators. (laugh)
The clothes Luffy and the others wear when they bash in for the final battle make them look almost like a gang...
Oda: Chivalrous bandits. I love movies about those. Like the ones by Director Makino Masahiro.
Because Luffy and the others come barging in when the archenemy Shiki is celebrating.
Oda: I've drawn illustrations with them in black suits, but I've never seen a scene with them moving around like that. So I though it would be cool if they were to move and fight dressed like that. "Coolness" is an important theme for this movie.
The more fights, the more excitement
So "coolness" was the one of the many sides of One Piece that you choose to persue in "Strong World"?
Oda: The most important theme here is "excitement".
Excitement.
Oda: I was thinking a lot about it at first. There was a time when I thought that what the viewers right now want the most is "emotion". And because I was participating, the viewers might expect something especially "emotional"... I was thinking like that, so the first plot I came up with was an emotional one. The preliminary title was "The Crystal Log Book"... But, when you write emotions trying actively to make something emotional, it all becomes shallow. I asked myself if that was what I wanted to write, and it definitely wasn't.
It's true that movies that make people cry and feel good are very popular according to the recent trends.
Oda: But I don't think it necessarily means that a movie was good just because "it made the entire US cry". I am a shounen manga writer, so what I really should be doing is to make something that makes boys feel excited. I realized that all of my own favorite movies, and the movie I wanted to create, was of that kind. Then, I had the movie's release date delayed by one year, and wrote the plot of the current "Strong World".
What kind of things were you considering while thinking up an exciting plot?
Oda: The most important thing was my own memories... There's this manga called "Kaibutsu-kun". I loved that manga, but for some reason, my favorite panel was a scene with a gorilla and a crocodile fighting.
That scene doesn't have anything to do with "Kaibutsu-kun", does it?
Oda: It was a scene where the main character, Kaibutsu-kun, wasn't present. (laugh) I don't know if it was my boyish blood or what it was, but I was really excited about two strong things fighting each other. So that is my focus point. I was thinking, if there was an island where the strongest animals that my current self could think up where fighting each other, how fun and exciting wouldn't that be? When I made a plot with that, it turned out as a really enjoyable movie where the entire thing is like the climax. I told the director and the producer that I'd draw lots of animals, so they should make sure to fill the screen with them. I asked them to have some animals fighting somewhere on the screen all the time. "The more fights, the more excitement!" I just wanted to make a movie that could make boys and young men feel excitement.
So it's a production filled with the simple things that makes young boys excited.
Oda: There were times when I asked the staff at the gatherings about what kind of things they liked when they were kids, and wrote it down. And then I put it all into the plot.
What kind of places did you add the staff's childhood episodes to?
Oda: There were stories about bugs, and pets, and motorbikes... That's why I drew so many insects!
Now that you mention it, there was a motorbike in the movie, too.
Oda: Zarly Davidson, that Franky remade. (laugh) Remaking an animal into a motorbike. (laugh)
The difference between manga and anime
How did it feel to get this closely involved with the anime creation as a General Production Supervisor?
Oda: Not surprisingly, I was worried all the time during production. I think if I had actually been the director, I would have worried enough to carve a hole in my stomach.
What did you worry about the most?
Oda: The animals, of course. The first thing the producer told me is that there are very few animators who are good at animating animals. You can't draw animals if you don't know how their bones are set, and you can make them move unless you know how their muscles work. This movie is full of animals, but if they don't move in a cool way, it wouldn't be any fun. But the art director, Satou Masahiro-san, is really serious about learning things. He studied it all perfectly. The animals move beautifully. The scary ones really do look scary!
From the beginning to the end, there's a string of battles.
Oda: Well, I made the artists work hard. The action sequences are excellent, too. The characters move just like I want them to. When I asked the staff around me for reactions, it turns out adults receive it very well, too. It feels just like with the One Piece manga. I'm writing One Piece aimed at boys, but in the end, I get delighted reactions from girls and adults, too. It's the feeling of having your work valued in wider and wider circles.
Are you satisfied with how the movie you worked on as a General Production Supervisor turned out?
Oda: I'm grateful to the director and the production staff. They have created a marvelous piece.
What do you personally think are the good points of anime?
Oda: I do think it's the sound. I feel a bit jealous. There's sound, and colors, and seyuus who are professional actors making a performance. There is dialogue in manga, but I can't decide how people will read it. That's up to the readers. With anime, professional seiyuus decide that "this is it!" and make a performance filled with vivid feelings. They can create scenes that make you choke up... Sometimes I think that anime has an unfair advantage.
Because anime has a large staff working on it, including people making music and sound effects.
Oda: However, the best thing about manga is that I can create it alone. The more people are involved, the more I worry. It's very hard to control a large group of people. I think it's a very difficult job to simply trust people and wait for them to get things done. I've heard that there were so many people involved with "Strong World" that they could barely fit them all into the staff roll. I'm really grateful.
Looking back at 10 years of anime
Right now we're looking at the tenth theatrical movie release, and ten full years of serialized anime. Do you remember what it felt like when it was first decided that your work would be animated?
Oda: Ahh, I was just happy. The anime would make One Piece spread. I didn't think of anything but how grateful I was.
A lot of series have gone from manga to anime in the past - did you ever think of becoming animated as your goal?
Oda: I was planning on an anime already when I wrote the first one-shot of One Piece ("Romance Dawn") - I had even decided on the voice actors. (laugh) Even though there's the fear of being cut off from Weekly Shounen Jump after 10 weeks and everything. I was all set for animation even before I was serialized!
The anime was announced in 1999 together with chapter 100, "The beginning of the legend", right?
Oda: Well, the anime announcement was made by the Jump editors, so it wasn't like I had it planned, but around chapter 95 I noticed that it might arrive perfectly in time for chapter 100. So I had to hurry. I thought it would be awesome if not only the story reached Grand Line, but the anime announcement was also made at chapter 100. I pretty much wrote that entire part from chapter 95 on in one breath.
I guess you spoke to the anime staff when the anime first started. What impression did you get?
Oda: When I first said hello to all of the members of the staff, I thought I had met really good people, because they all seemed to understand shounen manga. I was happy they were the kind of people who didn't pay attention to "moe" and such. I didn't want to work with people who went against my policies - even more than I wished I could be inside a shounen manga.
They're a staunch staff, aren't they?
Oda: I think it was a very lucky production, including my meeting with the staff.
Oda-san, I've heard that you imagined Tanaka Mayumi-san for Luffy's role from the very beginning?
Oda: Back when I wrote the one-shot, I was talking with my fellow assistants, saying that the one doing Pazuu's voice in "Laputa - Castle in the Sky" would be a good choice for my main character. I never believed she would actually come to the audition!
Did you request that she'd get the role?
Oda: I didn't say anything at the audition. I felt that I should leave the decisions regarding the anime for the professionals in that field. Basically, the anime staff were people I could trust, so I was going to leave it all to them. Because if I start giving them my opinions on everything, I'd get sucked into participating, and I wanted to avoid that. I was only going to give my opinion if I was asked for it. And still, I went to the audition for the main character's voice... and I was surprised to find Tanaka Mayumi-san there.
And then Tanaka-san got to play Luffy. How did you feel when you watched the anime?
Oda: I was boasting in front of my family when we watched it. When the screen said "Original Creator: Oda Eiichirou", I told them, "That's daddy!" (laugh)
So watching the anime is a family activity in your house.
Oda: And then, there's a TV in the cafeteria where assistants and staff go. When I was eating there, the children were nailed in front of the TV around 7 o'clock. I wondered what they were watching, and it turned out to be the One Piece anime. I stood there and stared, gaping like a fool. (laugh) I wanted to tell them that I was the one writing that manga, but then they'd think I was a weirdo (laugh), so I just silently told myself in my heart to fight on.
That's one way of feedback from the anime to the manga. Has the manga ever been directly influenced by the anime?
Oda: That would be Chopper. I disliked cute characters in the beginning. I was determined not to make Chopper the kind of mascot character who plays up to the fans. Since I was conscious of the fact that he's a reindeer, I drew him with a longer nose. But then, the animator Koizumi (Noboru)-san drew him much cuter. And then, his voice actor has a very cute voice, too.
Ootani Ikue-san, who plays Chopper.
Oda: I heard people say that the anime version of Chopper was cuter than the manga version, which felt like a pity. So I decided to revoke my ban on cuteness (laugh). "Let's compete over which Chopper is the cutest!" Lately, Chopper's cuteness has turned into a running gag.
So Chopper changed because you were competing with the anime?
Oda: Yes. But the important thing is that Chopper wants to become a manly pirate. He's a man, Chopper. If he was just there to play up to the audience, I would kick him out of the Mugiwara pirates at any time. But fortunately, he's learning from Zoro, so he's growing more and more manly. I will never handle his cuteness as anything but a gag.
The manga and the anime are competing to mutual benefit?
Oda: I want to keep it as a friendly competition that makes both better. One Piece wouldn't grow if one of them lost. The excellent animators becomes a great stimulus for One Piece.
You are always striving for new heights with One Piece, both when it comes to the drawings and the performance?
Oda: I don't want to lose. I think of the anime as a "rival" in the positive sense.
The anime has unfolded original stories like the "Historical Drama One Piece" and "Chopperman" based on your title pages and 4-panel comic strips.
Oda: That's right. I've told them to play with it more. I don't mind if they use the world views I have shown in bonus comics and such and use it any way they want, fleshing it out. There's no need to hold back. I've told the voice actors to play around with their performances, too.
Brook in particular has turned into a very "free" character".
Oda: Cho-san who plays Brook is a very funny person. At the recording of "Strong World", he said, completely ad lib, "Oh, I bit my tongue. But I have no tongue!" Even though there's no such line. (laugh) Words that just slip out like that make the viewers laugh.
The obsession and loneliness of a manga creator
Oda-san, I think you're acquainted with anime creation now that you have worked as a general production supervisor for an anime - do you ever think that you would like to work as an anime or movie director?
Oda: I think you'd need to study for that. I have no such wish - this time was an exception. Because this time, I had a man like Sakai-san who I could trust, which allowed me to concentrate on the setting and the story.
Do you think you are more suited for anime or manga creation?
Oda: Going by my very nature, I'm suited for manga. Because I have a tendency to want to do everything by myself. When I'm thrown into a situation with a lot of people, it's difficult. This time... was difficult too.
So you're definitely more suited for creating something alone.
Oda: Nah, I love being with people! I love going out for a beer and so. (laugh) It's just that when it comes to work, my perfectionism comes into play. I've got a feeling that a lot of manga creators in general are eccentric people. It feels good that I have a director and staff that I can trust when it comes to keeping the anime running.
Do you ever feel loneliness when you write the manga alone?
Oda: It is lonely to draw the sketches... the basic story. It gets to me when people see me like that. And to be honest, it's tough to work alone in silence. I spend three days of the week closed up in my room, drawing the sketches, without talking to anyone. Although the staff is in the next room, to keep me focused. I've become bad at talking after becoming a manga creator. It feels like I've become really bad at explaining things to people. I'm very happy on the day when the assistants arrive.
So, you talk mostly to your assistants?
Oda: Yes. I like finding out what's popular right now, and asking them about new happenings and such.
Was creating the plot for the current anime also lonely work?
Oda: It was the same. It was just like making the sketch pages for the manga - I didn't talk to anyone.
What do you think about the most when you make the first sketches? The story? The characters?
Oda: Manga is all about the characters. Because as long as I have the characters set, they start acting on their own. So I think up interesting characters, and then I think about what kind of situations would be most interesting to put them in. That's how far my "work" goes. After that, I leave it to these interesting people to proceed the way they want to. If I try to control them, it'll just become forced.
So you create characters that start walking on their own?
Oda: Yes. Sometimes I find out new things about the characters as I write them, and sometimes a verbal tick that just appeared becomes a fundamental part of a character. The most important thing is the pictures. I'm at my most happy when I draw a picture and find an interesting face appearing. When I come up with an "I've never seen a face like this before!" kind of weird face, that weird face starts saying weird things. At that point, I'm all done.
Both the manga and the anime versions of One Piece have gone beyond chapter 500. Isn't it starting to get difficult to pursue "weird faces" and "weird things"?
Oda: You're right. It's already difficult right now. If I'd try to draw everyone's feelings in the recent chapters, every chapter would need to be 50 pages long. But if I don't know clearly in my head what every single character is thinking about every event that happens, the story won't move forward. It won't progress to the next scene. So I pick up every single emotion and action from the crowd of characters, and then I draw only the most interesting of those in the manga. That is extremely tough work. In fact, I want to draw everything, and show every character's face.
So for example, in the current manga chapters, all of the Shichibukai are fighting, and everything that happens in those battles is there in your head?
Oda: Yes. When such fantastic people are using their abilities, there are also pirates getting caught up in it. If I don't picture all of those people, I can't draw the background for the next panel. All sorts of things end up getting drawn at once, and it feels like my head is roaring.
So this is your peak situation?
Oda: My head is about to burst.
But I think that the way you draw every emotion in that way is one of the unique things about One Piece.
Oda: I'm the kind of person who can't relax unless I draw every single panel like that.
How do you manage to do that? It's to the point where one thinks you're a super-computer, making all of these calculations at once.
Oda: It's "obsession". I have an obsession for creating stories. I believe there are ways to make any kind of story more interesting. The characters act on their own, but among all these actions there are always some that are more interesting, or more natural. If I take these interesting actions and make them intersect, it becomes even more interesting. I use my obsession to find these.
It's easy to say "obsession", but in fact, it's an incredible thing!
Oda: I do think that even if you draw the characters in a half-assed way, it will still be kind of interesting. But I really want to find the things I find the very most interesting. It's a fundamental difference in personalities, I guess. I don't want to submit boring sketches.
You're never satisfied.
Oda: It's my nature. I've never been able to hand things in on schedule and then have it over with, even though I'd like to try that. If I did, I'd get more time for myself, and it also seems more professional. I'd honestly love to be able to mass-produce stories in a technical manner, like a job. But... I know that I can't do that. I've finally realized that after 12 years of serialization.
So One Piece isn't really a job anymore. (laugh)
Oda: This isn't very nice to my editors, but unless I keep thinking all the way up to the deadline, I don't feel like I've done my best. It's my nature as an author.
It's your way of writing.
Oda: I'm not sure if it's a good or a bad thing for me as a person, but I don't think it's a very practical way of living. I feel like if I'd relax just because I've become a bit popular, that would be the end. I'm stubborn like a weed.
The unpredictable voyage called One Piece
The anime has already been running for 10 years, and the manga for 12 years. You've said in interviews in the past that you never expected it to become this long?
Oda: I didn't except it. Frankly, I'd like to ask myself back then why I thought I would be able to finish it in five years.
At first, it was supposed to be a five-year project?
Oda: Yes. I thought all the nakama would gather together in a year and a half. I was thinking of it with video game logic. If you go to a new island, there will be a new nakama, and they will join immediately... And then it turned out that the characters weren't game pieces, they were people. When a person with a straw hat and stretchy arms and legs showed up and told them to become pirates, they didn't want to. They wouldn't become nakama without a considerable story arc. That was my big miscalculation. I was thinking of a story where all the nakama would gather before entering Grand Line, and then they'd have a big adventure, and that would be it... And then, I thought I'd become the author of great hits! My plan for my life has fallen apart. (laugh)
The anime has also become Toei's longest production, continuing for 10 years.
Oda: That's incredible. That's not because of me anymore - it's because the animators are working hard.
How have these 12 years of manga and 10 years of anime been for you, Oda-san?
Oda: I can barely remember the time I've spent creating the manga originals. When you spend week after week at the utmost of your ability, the memories of it blur. It feels like a single moment. As a series, there's been one miracle after another. There are lots of places within the story where I'm surprised myself to find that this and that is connected, and I've worked with so many people I really wanted to work with. I can't explain it in any other way than that I'm a lucky, happy person. I think this series pulls people in and makes people meet.
I guess you don't want to answer this, but how far into the entire story of One Piece have you reached right now?
Oda: I don't want to think about it. (laugh) It makes me tired. But I also have the conviction that I'll keep working until every scene is good enough.
I've heard that you've already thought up the ending?
Oda: Yes. It's good! The ending. And I think the longer the series runs, the better the ending will be. I'm not worried about the quality - my only worry is if my own strength will last that long.
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